1.9 Tdi Starting Problems

[wackojackouk]

Hi chaps

 

Hopefully someone can please help me. Yesterday I jumped in the Galaxy to take my daughter to school and was then planning on going to work and she wouldn't start. All the lights on the dash came on as normal but nothing happened on turning the key - no attempt to turn over nothing. I tried again and the drivers headlight blew :blink: but still didnt start.

 

My first thought was a flat battery but I replaced it a year ago with a 096 Numax Car Battery 12V 72Ah from Tayna.co.uk. Normally I thought a flat battery would try and turn over but the lights go dim and you hear the car struggle.

 

I tried a couple of times and eventually she fired up and fired up straight away. No chugging of the battery just started as normal. I drove my little one to school, parked up and turned car off and immediately back on just to check and again nothing. Dropped her in school and went back to the car and she started at the second or third attempt.

 

Had a hospital appointment later in the day (which wasnt good either) so was worried but she started up okay later on and experienced no problems the rest of the day. I popped into to see my mechanic who's about 15 miles away and he did a quick battery test and said it was fine (let the power drain from the car for about 15 minutes first). He also replaced the bulb that blew.

 

Anyway he told me to keep an eye on it as it seemed to be ok. I mentioned about relay 30 after doing a bit of research (i think thats petrol only though).

 

This morning about an hour ago I tried the car again and took my spare with me (I did drop the key the night before btw but nothing sinister) and it wouldn't fire up with either key. Basically the lights all come on but nothing after that except a clicking from the fuse box area.

 

I read something about the PATS system so went back out to her literally 10 minutes ago and she fires up first time. Took her for a 5 min spin around the block (trying to put some charge in the battery just in case it's that) and came back and parked her up again. Turned her off, left it a minute or so and tried again.... guess what.... NOTHING just the lights and no turn over.

 

Anyway I watched the led in the drivers door when I insert the key and turn the car on (not starting) and the red light stays lit for about 3-4 seconds then goes off. I then tried to turn her over and nothing with either key.

 

I'm thinking it may have something to do with Relay 19 (I believe) but can someone give me some pointers/advice please. I'm not stupid but not the best mechanically and need my car to be reliable as I've got a trip up north coming soon and then a trip to Eurodisney so need her to be fine (as well as an MRI on my knee on Tuesday).

 

Please help

 

Cheers

 

WJUK

[Caff]

Is this a Mk 2? If so relay 109 was our problem. Search for my posts and you'll find it. We flattened our battery fiddling and this meant we couldn't start the car after we changed the relay. We also changed a fuse box but not sure if the main problem.

 

Another common thing. It was extremely cold when the relay "failed" fully.

[wackojackouk]

Is this a Mk 2? If so relay 109 was our problem. Search for my posts and you'll find it. We flattened our battery fiddling and this meant we couldn't start the car after we changed the relay. We also changed a fuse box but not sure if the main problem.

 

Another common thing. It was extremely cold when the relay "failed" fully.

 

Thanks Caf. Yeah 53 plate 1.9 TDi. Just had a quick read up on that. Will check the fuse box under the engine. I'm leaning towards Relay 109 which I understand is a b*stard to get at. If so will leave to my mechanic to sort.

 

Also yes it was cold today 0.5c at best (according to the dash). This kinda thing makes me think it could still be battery related. :blink:

Edited February 4, 2012 by wackojackouk

[Caff]

Fuse 109 is behind the main fuse panel to the right of the steering wheel. It's time consuming but not difficult. It's somewhere on the forum how to attack.

I get the impression that this relay being faulty really drains your battery.

[wackojackouk]

Fuse 109 is behind the main fuse panel to the right of the steering wheel. It's time consuming but not difficult. It's somewhere on the forum how to attack.

I get the impression that this relay being faulty really drains your battery.

 

Had another look and checked out the fuse box under the bonnet and no signs of a burn out or even a hot wire :blink:

 

Got the OH to help me check out a few things including clicking etc but not really narrowed it down much as it just starts sometimes and not others. Hopefully the mechanic I use can fit me in early in the week and sort it as I dont have the time at the moment.

[westonmac]

trying to follow this thread am confused, not being rude , but relay 19,relay 109, fuse 109, are we looking at a relay or fuse

[cyborg]

Hi there.

just a couple of tips for you

If you coil light on dash lights and goes out its not relay 109 that's your problem,

as you have suggested the lights work and dash light goes out .

I would check your wires going to starter motor in particular the starter solenoid.

 

[chrispb123456]

Hi Wacko

Just to clear some confusion, relay 109 is the power supply for engine ECU and injectors and has nothing to do with the starter circuit, in other words if you had a faulty 109 relay the starter would still turn the engine over but it would not fire and you would notice the LED on the drivers door flashing frantically.

[marinabrid]

had very similar problem, turned out it was the starter motor, if the car has decent mileage could be worth replacing it with a good branded like bosch recon dont go for the cheapo types.

[Caff]

Sorry I'm adding to the confusion. I meant relay 109 as in my earlier post. This is inside car not under the bonnet. But if chrispb123456 is right, and I bow to his knowledge, I have just put a red herring in the works for which I appologise!

C

[wackojackouk]

Sorry I'm adding to the confusion. I meant relay 109 as in my earlier post. This is inside car not under the bonnet. But if chrispb123456 is right, and I bow to his knowledge, I have just put a red herring in the works for which I appologise!

C

 

Hi guys

 

Thanks for all the feedback.

 

Went out this afternoon and she fired up straight away. 5/10 minute journey to Tesco and started up again fine. However I thought I noticed a slight (maybe a second or two) delay when coming home.

 

Got her back in the garage and turned her off. Left it 30 seconds and turned her over again and nothing. Kept trying on and off over the next few minutes and she started half the time. I did notice that there was a slight delay a couple of times and I didnt notice any clicking from the fuse box within the car area.

 

I mentioned this to my OH who was helping me yesterday and she said the same thing. Also I noticed a couple of times when she was helping me was that the passenger indicator flashed as well.

 

Can this help throw any light on the problem?

 

Cheers

 

WJUK

 

Ps - Someone also mentioned as I had my mate battery test it that I should have tried to turn it over whilst he was testing it to see if there was a big drop in voltage.

[NikpV]

Sorry I'm adding to the confusion. I meant relay 109 as in my earlier post. This is inside car not under the bonnet. But if chrispb123456 is right, and I bow to his knowledge, I have just put a red herring in the works for which I appologise!

C

 

Hi guys

 

Thanks for all the feedback.

 

Went out this afternoon and she fired up straight away. 5/10 minute journey to Tesco and started up again fine. However I thought I noticed a slight (maybe a second or two) delay when coming home.

 

Got her back in the garage and turned her off. Left it 30 seconds and turned her over again and nothing. Kept trying on and off over the next few minutes and she started half the time. I did notice that there was a slight delay a couple of times and I didnt notice any clicking from the fuse box within the car area.

 

I mentioned this to my OH who was helping me yesterday and she said the same thing. Also I noticed a couple of times when she was helping me was that the passenger indicator flashed as well.

 

Can this help throw any light on the problem?

 

Cheers

 

WJUK

 

Ps - Someone also mentioned as I had my mate battery test it that I should have tried to turn it over whilst he was testing it to see if there was a big drop in voltage.

 

 

IIRC you can eliminate the pats - I think on the Diesel versions the car turns over, starts/dies if its a pats problem (my memory may well be playing up though)

[wackojackouk]

Afternoon everyone.

 

She's off to the mechanic tomorrow for some check ups but in the meantime I thought I'd share one odd thing that happened today and see if you can provide any further clues.

 

Basically fired her up this morning to take my daughter to school and she started straight away and was fine again on the return journey (no delays when turning over, completely normal).

 

Had to go out this afternoon and again she was fine on both journeys there and back.

 

Got home and thought that I would do some more testing to see if I could reproduce the problem so tried turning her on and off a few times and every time the Gal started up first time without any issues.

 

HOWEVER....

 

I did notice on one occasion that the LED lights in the drivers door were flashing BUT whilst the car was running. I had experienced this about 12-18 months agao but this was when the car would cut out (turbo vanes sticking I believe) and if you started it quickly the LED's would flash.

 

Anyway I restarted the car when I noticed this and the LED went out as normal (comes on as solid for 3/4 seconds when you turn the key once and goes out when you start or just after you start up)

 

Not sure if this is related or not. I have VCDS Lite so can run a quick scan later (which area's should I check for anything in particular) if need be but if anyone could come up with some more pointers today it would help me to give as much information tomorrow.

 

Thanks

 

WJUK

[wackojackouk]

Started her up this morning (0.5 degrees) and she did fire BUT there was a definite delay.

 

Dropped daughter at school and then she wouldn't fire at all. Sitting there like a complete tool.

 

Read somewhere about the ignition switch so whilst on the phone to my OH moaning I wiggled the key in the lock whilst turning and she fires up straight away.

 

Got home, turned on and off and each time was fine albeit a couple of slight delays so am now thinking it might have something to do with the switch etc (thanks Chris for the tip).

 

She's off to the mechanic around 1pm so if anyone can think of anything else please share.

 

Thanks

[wackojackouk]

Hi guys

 

Car is with the mechanic so should hear something back in the next day or so.

 

However I have some more info to share....

 

Going to mechs car starts fine no problems and gets there and waits as he has just popped out. I took my laptop with me and hooked up VCDS lite whilst I was waiting. Goes in to no 1 engine and finds this error code

 

17978 - Engine Start Blocked by Immobiliser

 

This wasn't there the other day and I used VCDS Lite when I have been getting problems to see if it flagged anything up but nothing before. I'm wondering however if this could have occoured this morning when I tried it 4/5 times in a row and it wouldn't start.

 

Anyway I saved/cleared the code and tried starting etc again and all was fine. Then I tried turning on and off quite quickly to see if I could replicate this OR bring the fault code back.

 

This time the LEDS flashed rapidly in the door and she wouldn't start. Did this twice in a row (I removed the key too) and then at the third attempt was fine. Checked Vagcom (engine 1) but no errors for this or the 17978 one and after that started immediately without issue (i tried about another 5 times).

 

Cheers

 

WJUK

[seatkid]

Are you sure you dont just have a dicky battery? Check the battery voltage (on the leads, not the terminals) whilst cranking, if it dives well below 10 volts you might have a duff cell. Low voltage during start can give all sorts of problems.

 

If the PATS is intermittently blocking, then it could be the reader coil in the ignition barrel. Do you have the spare key on the same key ring? If so this could confuse the PATS as both chips might be read at the same time leading to a garbled signal.

[chim289]

Did you find out what the problem was?

 

Ours has had a similar problem since we bought it. We had the starter motor rebuilt a few months after we bought the car and it was fine afterwards, but a few months ago the problems started up again. Our problem though is only every now and then, not as regular as the OPs problem.

 

There's nothing there at all when turning the key, just a click from the starter motor. Usually you can go out 10-20 minutes later and it'll start a bit slowly, but will start. It's usually in the morning that it happens, which means DH is late for work, luckily we're borrowing a car for the summer holidays, so he was able to take that one this morning, and luckily it's my day off. I've been out to it several times over the morning and still it's not turning over. This has happened a few times in the evening when DH has been coming home from work and he's been able to get it bump started. A hammer to the starter motor sometimes works, sometimes doesn't.

 

The glow plug light comes on as normal and the drivers door led does nothing when you try to start it.

[alan_131]

You might want to start your own thread, but fwiw I think the click from the starter shows the basic control circuitry works, so you're probably looking at the old-fashioned causes. Bad battery, dud starter, dud connections/poor earth/feed. If hitting the starter with a hammer sometimes works then I'd be thinking starter or its connections first, but your other comments point at the battery. If it were me, I'd make want to make sure the battery was good and then move to the starter. Maybe take it out and give it a clean, though I'd suspect it might need more than this. Might also be worth trying (after its done its slow cranking thing) just feeling around connections on battery, starter, engine earth, to see if they're hot/warm. (engine off and beware they might be very hot.)

 

 

Few questions -

Is it just a single click for each time you turn the key?

Is the click definately coming from the starter motor?

If you turn on headlights, do lights go dim when key is turned?

Any other odd happenings/funny noises?

Just after it starts, if you have headlights&heated rear window on,does revving the engine make the headlights lights brighter?

Good luck